Talk:Jane Pierce

Jane Pierce has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: October 9, 2022. (Reviewed version).

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Women in Green: Wildcard Edition

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Untitled

What's up with Jane's right hand? It appears either gloved or some how blackened. Frost bite?

Why is this Jane Pierce artical linked to Jamestown? It cannot possibly be the same person as the third wife of John Rolf! The dates are completely wrong not to mention the history.

Nickname

A single reference I have states that Mrs. Pierce was known by Washington as the "Shadow of the White House". Anyone have other references for this?

Losing her grip with reality?

I have a source that claims she spent two years of her life in the upstairs of the White House writing "maudlin"letters to her dead son? Can anyone else confirm this?

Invalid?

This article refers to her as an invalid at the end of her life, but doesn't say what the cause was. Just depression? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.149.78.122 (talk) 04:28, 7 November 2007 (UTC) Mrs Pierce almost certainly had tuberculosis, along with the varied and somewhat amorphous somatic afflictions of what was called at the time neurasthenia. Plutonium27 (talk) 03:49, 1 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

WP: Women's History Assessment Commentary

The article was assessed C-class for lack of in-line citations. Boneyard90 (talk) 14:52, 17 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Mess

When I stumbled upon this article, it included only two footnotes--one referring to a YouTube video and another to a dubious-looking website. (There were some other references listed, but there were no inline citations to them.) It had been tagged for insufficient sources since 2017. Some material had been directly lifted from another website. There was a glaring historical error. What a mess.

I have cleaned this up a bit and solved some of the obvious problems, but a lot more inline citations are needed and the article just needs more work overall. I have bumped it down to Start-class. 24.29.56.240 (talk) 13:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What's wrong with political ambition?

Jane's family was opposed to the union due to Pierce's political ambitions.

Was he batting for the wrong side, or did they just not like politicians? Valetude (talk) 01:04, 25 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

WiG brief review

This generally looks like a solid piece of work. The sources look generally good, but I'm not sure about the sourcebooks publication. There are a few places where the prose gets confusing, redundant, or colloquial: for instance, the "The two were together for seven years"; there were together far longer, presumably this refers to the period before marriage. "supported the preservation of slavery in order to preserve the nation and the Constitution" reads as somewhat POV. I've made a few minor copy-edits to address some of these, but in other places access to the sources is needed to make the fixes. The biggest issue to me is the lead; it's very confusingly ordered, and contains redundancy. It also mentions Varina Davis performing First Lady duties, which is not something covered in the body. I would recommend rewriting the lead completely prior to GAN, but otherwise, I see no reason not to nominate this after some prose fixes. Vanamonde (Talk) 04:30, 3 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback

Agree with Vanamonde. Looks good.

The images all seem to be missing their "alt" descriptions.
In "Marriage and family," maybe mention the effect on Jane of the deaths of her two other children, building to Benjamin's tragic death. (Could also be in the lead if it was significant.)
It would be nice reword the ending. Her opinion of Crockett sort of walks off a cliff at the end.

I made minor copyedits. Best wishes for your GAN. -4 October 2022 edited SusanLesch (talk) 14:43, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Jane Pierce/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Unexpectedlydian (talk · contribs) 12:03, 8 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! I'll be reviewing this article as part of the Women in Green October Editathon. I'll add comments in the table below shortly. Unexpectedlydian^♯4 talk^‽ 12:03, 8 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi again @Thebiguglyalien, this is a very good article and my comments are only pretty minor. The one comment I'm personally struggling with is the copyright status of the Jane Pierce coin (I've explained in criteria 6a); I saw you uploaded the image so I'm hoping you'll be able to help me with that. I'm putting the article on hold, do let me know if you have any questions. Unexpectedlydian^♯4 talk^‽ 14:55, 8 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the bibliography, it's the only book where sources are drawn from disparate parts of the text. All other book sources only use information from a single page or a single chapter, rendering sfn unnecessary. Regarding the image of the coin, my understanding is that trademark is distinct from copyright in a way that allows its use. The trademark prevents you or I from starting our own line of coins called "United States Mint Uncirculated Coin Set", but (to my understanding) has no effect on the copyright of the image. Regarding all other concerns, I've edited the article to address them. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 18:00, 8 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Thebiguglyalien Thank you for addressing these changes so swiftly and for your explanations. I've crossed off where the changes have been addressed. Happy to promote this to GA now, thanks for your work on this article :) Unexpectedlydian^♯4 talk^‽ 13:13, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	Lead Franklin died of tuberculosis in 1869. This feels a bit out of place without also mentioning details of Jane's death, i.e. Franklin died of tuberculosis in 1869, six years after Jane, and was buried alongside her at Old North Cemetery. or something similar. Early life She was the youngest of three daughters and was followed by three brothers. Personal opinion, this sounds slightly confusing. Maybe change to She was the youngest of three daughters and had three younger brothers. Later life and death ~~Maybe use a convert template for 60 acres into m^2?~~
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.	Lead sections Lead looks good. Layout General layout of article content works well. ~~See comment in 2a regarding the Bibliography section—not sure why Wallner 2004 is the only book in that section and which uses sfn.~~ Words to watch None identified. Fiction N/A List incorporation N/A
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.	Sources provided in the appropriate section of the article. ~~Not sure why Wallner 2004 is separately listed in the Bibliography section of the article, and uses an sfn template, when no other book sources are?~~ ~~Jane Appleton Pierce Lane Memorial Library (www.hampton.lib.nh.us) needs an archived link as the current link as showing as "Not found".~~ Looks like this source is now gone.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).	Source check Schneider, Dorothy; Schneider, Carl J. (2010). "Jane Means Appleton Pierce". First Ladies: A Biographical Dictionary Done Hendricks, Nancy (2015). "Jane Pierce". America's First Ladies: A Historical Encyclopedia and Primary Document Collection of the Remarkable Women of the White House: A Historical Encyclopedia and Primary Document Collection of the Remarkable Women of the White House Done Baker, Jean H. "Franklin Pierce: Life Before the Presidency" Done Jane Pierce". Miller Center Done "Biography of Jane Pierce". whitehouse.gov. ~~he briefly went away to serve as a general in the Mexican–American War Tiny point, but the source states he served as a brigadier. Are brigadier and general the same thing?~~ Arnold, Amanda (2017-07-12). "The First Ladies Who Brought the Occult to the White House" Done "First Lady Biography: Jane Pierce". National First Ladies' Library Done Watson, Robert P. (1999-01-01). "Ranking the presidential spouses". The Social Science Journal. 36 (1) Done Siena College and C-SPAN Announce the Rankings of the First Ladies of the United States (FLOTUS)" Done
	2c. it contains no original research.	Content it contains no original research.
	2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.	Copyvio brings up nothing of concern. Spot-checks also brought up nothing of concern.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.	Content that the main aspects of Pierce's life are covered: biography, relationship to president, political beliefs, personal/family life.
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).	Content that the article is focussed.
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.	Article is presented neutrally.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.	Recent edits have been copyedits and/or constructive.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.	Images are tagged with copyright status. The image of the 2010 commemorative coin is, according to the description page, an uncirculated coin. The U.S. Mint Intellectual Property Rights states that trademarks owned by the U.S. Mint include the United States Mint Uncirculated Coin Set®. Do you know if that includes the Jane Pierce commemorative coin?
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.	Not a GA requirement, but the images need alternative descriptions. I added some myself, feel free to change.
	7. Overall assessment.